Ep 184: Wix SEO Explains How To Win Traffic By Understanding Google Concepts with Mordy Oberstein

Being on top of the Search Engine Results Pages is truly a challenge. Many online businesses think that they know it all and have done it all but they were wrong. 

Mordy Oberstein came over on the show to help us in understanding Google concepts affecting SEO. 

Mordy is the Head of SEO Branding at Wix. Concurrently he also serves as a communications advisor for Semrush. Dedicated to SEO education, Mordy is one of the organizers of #SEOchat, the host of the SEO Rant podcast, co-host of Edge of the Web, and a popular industry author and speaker.

We have tackled how Mordy and Wix have structured their content on their home page and site and why we should model some of what they are doing. How to make sure Google and your users can find your content? (Find out the multiple strategies.) Why ticking all the SEO boxes when creating content and growing your site is not the answer?

We have also discussed how to problem solve when your site and pages were hit by a Google Update. Google concepts, what are they, and how you can learn to create better content than what Google and even your users expect?

Don’t miss your chance to learn from the industry expert and increase the website traffic of your online business. 

Go watch this video!

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Episode Highlights

03:08 How to structure the content for users and Google?

06:27 Is having too many categories on the Home Page good?

07:47 Optimizing SEO & User experience

14:48 Determining multiple underlying causalities

22:08 Understanding Google concepts that can make a big difference to your site

Courses & Training

Courses & Training

Key Takeaways

➥ If you have too many categories on your website, you can put them in the footer so that readers won’t get too overwhelmed.

➥ Having canonical issues and no index on the entire site are preventing your site from ranking.

Google is a really complex algorithm, and they’re trying to understand content and websites the way that people might.


About The Guest

Mordy Oberstein is the Head of SEO Branding at Wix. Concurrently he also serves as a communications advisor for Semrush. Dedicated to SEO education, Mordy is one of the organizers of #SEOchat, the host of the SEO Rant podcast, co-host of Edge of the Web, and a popular industry author and speaker.

Connect with Mordy Oberstein


Jaryd Krause (0:00)

You can get more traffic and more money with these Google concepts. Hi, I'm Jaryd Krause. I'm the host of the Buying Online Businesses podcast. And today I'm speaking with Mordy Oberstein, who is the head of Seo Branding at Wix.com. Currently, he also serves as communications advisor for Semrush. Dedicated to SEO education, Mordy is one of the organizers of the hashtag SEO chat and the host of the SEO rant podcast, co-host of edge of the web and a popular industry author and speaker in this podcast episode.

I was delighted to speak to Mordy about how he and Wix have structured their content on their homepage, and on their science, and why we should model some of what they're actually doing with our content sites that we may be purchasing or already own. We also talk about how to make sure Google and your users can find your content. And we also talk about multiple different strategies in ways of doing that not just in internal links, we was talking about why ticking all the SEO boxes when you're creating content and growing your site is just simply not the answer.

They can be important, but they're not everything and don't live and die by the sword of that. We also talked about how to problem solve, why your sites and pages were hit by Google update. If they weren't hit by Google update, we'll also dive into Google concepts. This is a fascinating part of the discussion and the podcast that I had with Mordy. And I really believe in a lot of the things that he believes in around Google and concepts and algorithms and content for particular users that we're trying to target. And we talk about these Google Content concepts, what they actually are and how you can learn these to create better content than what Google and even your users expect. There's so much more in the podcast episode. Among those talking points I just mentioned, this is such an incredible episode, you're absolutely going to love it.

But before we get stuck in the episode, I want to tell you that this podcast is not the only way that I can help you for free. I have my due diligence framework which everybody has been raving about, which will help you with knowing what to look out for when buying a website, including questions you should be asking the seller and everything that you need to take the guesswork out of buying a business to get that go to buyingonlinebusinesses.com/freeresources. And there's some other cool free resources on that page that you can check out too. Let's get stuck into the episode.

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Mordy Hello, welcome to the BOB podcast.

Mordy Oberstein (3:11)

Hey, thanks for having me.

Jaryd Krause (3:12)

Yeah, looking forward to this conversation. Like I just said, I've got some interesting talking points and questions. I hopefully have sautéing answers. Yeah, I'm sure we'll just go down the rabbit hole with some of the some of the questions I end up putting out there. But the first thing I wanted to mention was, you know, so many people listening to this, like cool, Jaryd have followed your content for ages loving it, want to buy a website, usually they start off wanting to buy a content website, because that can be the easiest one to move into.

Rather than just going and buying ecommerce business and having all of these jobs wearing so many hats. And one common question when people buy a blog or a content site is Alright, so we've got these categories, or this bunch of categories and a bunch of content, how do we work out if the categories and the flow of traffic is right, there's correct silos and stuff like that. So I'd love that this is not just a question, but it's more of a discussion or topic to bring up how do you go about looking at a site and going oh, like, there's a lot of content here we need to structure a bit better for Google and for the users?

Mordy Oberstein (4:20)

Yeah, I mean, you know, you can you can go into this and make a you know, some sort of really complicated analysis of like, you know, site hierarchy and, or it can be the general the general hierarchy that Google recommends is an it's like a pyramid right? So you start off with say, your homepage, you go to maybe some category pages, and then you dive deep into there's let's just take like a I don't know, like an example of baseball. I'm a big baseball nut, right?

So the homepage is baseball.com. And then you have all sorts of categories you have you know, I don't know analysis stats and you know, teams, and under etc. Under teams, you have, you know, all your blog posts about the individual teams under there. That's a general structure. It makes a lot of sense. It's very intuitive to use There's I would say, like, look, not, not every website can be built that way. Some websites have a flight flat hierarchy. And that's also fine.

When you look at it and you go, the website doesn't pass the sniff test, like, can I easily navigate it? Do I easily understand it? Does it make sense to me as a person? And if it does, for the most part, it should make sense to a search engine, it's really not overly you can make it overly complicated, but you don't have to.

Jaryd Krause (5:23)

And so that's probably the easiest way to explain having your content easy to access for the search engine and for the user, or is it different at times?

Mordy Oberstein (5:33)

No, I think it's very much the same, right? You know, you have a folder let's say you have a folder with it says resources. And there's just everything under the sun is in there. The knowledge base is in there. Your podcast is in there your Is it too much. Yeah, like maybe pull that knowledge base out and you have a button and your separate menu item for help or whatever you want to call support.

If that if you feel overwhelmed with it, I must say that Google will be overwhelming understand the site, but Google may not have the value that you want them to have from your website. And there's if they go to resources, and they see okay, so you have, SEO podcasts, SEO blog, SEO webinars, and okay, get it. This is Seo, this is active SEO content, you're going to get up to date information, you're going to get analysis, we get this if the Help Center is in there, throws them off a little bit like why is that here? What's this all about? This is make intuitive sense.

Jaryd Krause (6:27)

Got ya. What I like to see and what I talk about with some of my clients, when they have it can either be a blog or, or ecommerce business is not having too much going on. When somebody goes to the site. And like having so many categories in the top and so many things in the top navigation bar. Do you feel there are too many categories? Possibly? And what amount does it start to become too many?

Mordy Oberstein (6:52)

I don't know if there's a magic number. But yes, right. But by the way, so like, a quick way to handle that if you don't want to throw it on the main if it's, you want it on the home page, maybe you want the internal link there, whatever it is, but you don't want to put in the footer. Just put in the footer. I see people do this all the time with products.

I was talking to him about this yesterday. I don't know I have all these products, I want to list them on the homepage. But like someone goes to your homepage, and they see all these products. First off, it's just overwhelming. And it dilutes the actual power of the homepage is very clear, distinct. What do you do? What problems do you solve? How do you solve those problems? I was overwhelmed by product.

So just put a carousel of two, three of your most important products you want to segue them into there. Same thing with categories. If you're just if you're if you're feeling like I had this content, it's got to go somewhere on a stuffing into the menu somewhere. That's not a good way. It's not a good way to do anything. Yeah, so I'll give you the case of so what we're doing on our side with our SEO Learning Hub is that we have so many considerations that we're trying to accomplish, right? You're trying to as you know, okay, well, it's an SEO learning curve, it should be SEO optimized, right?

So we're trying to speak to Google, we have different audiences with different needs. So we have, for example, and we have multiple, multiple media formats. So we have podcasts, webinars, blog, posts, guides, and all that kind of stuff. So we're trying to show all of that in one place at one time. And how do you go about doing that? So we had certain priorities? And I think it's what you have to do is take it what are your priority?

So one of our priorities is, for example, every asset, whether it be podcasts, and webinars or blog posts, or whatever it is, should it be one click accessible above the fold. Right, and now you have other things. Okay, so now we want to have our latest posts, we want to show that we're fresh, you want to show Google that refreshing and assuring us that refreshing and creating timely content, so we need to have something about like some kind of latest posting. But we also have different kinds of content, cornerstone content, we have the complete guide to Wix SEO.

So if you're a Wix user, that's like the one piece you really need to read, that's got to be there somehow. So you can either have we're thinking, maybe put a button up there to click the Read The Ultimate Guide, or maybe do something like have editors picks. And that does that one post is always up there in the editor’s picks. So there's multiple ways we can get creative about thinking about how you find ways to fulfill your priority list without overwhelming people. But that's so in our case, that's basically what we did, or in the middle of doing.

Jaryd Krause (9:13)

Yeah, I like it. I love it. And basically from doing that, when you've got like, if you're just starting out, it's the first time you're on Wix, and you want to you want to learn SEO, they start at the start of the journey, and you give them exactly what they need, where they're at, in their part of the journey. Yeah, like the like the Yeah, I don't think enough people that own the content sites and blogs, think about this.

When somebody comes to their site from a link from Google. They might type in a keyword, they jump on to a website and then read that and they don't think about okay, what's next? They've just consumed this piece of content. What's the next thing that they would probably go away and search and then have that in internal links or at the bottom of the page and I don't think they do that well enough? And I think that’s a GG find that the case too.

Mordy Oberstein (10:02)

Yeah, totally I get you know, I, it's when you go to see a hub or a blog, you're the homepage of the blog, and they have all the categories up there. But then you go to particular post, and then it's not there. Right. So let's say it came the other way. So fine. I already saw the homepage. I know what's there, I'll go back, and I’ll find what I need.

But once they come through a link from social media, or I come through from Google, or even through Bing, I said this on Bing, yet, I come through and I don't know what's on your homepage. I have no idea what's there. You got to give me some kind of context. I always argue about this on landing pages, right? CRO people always say don't put navigation on landing pages, have them come in, just make the click here. But let's say I look at the landing page. And I'm like, you know what, I need a little bit more context. Where do I go? I have no idea. There's no navigation on your friggin landing page.

Jaryd Krause (10:52)

And then you hit the exit tab on the you click the Close thing on the tab. And you never know what the site was in the first place.

Mordy Oberstein (10:58)

Yeah, don't go by it makes no sense to me. You don't want to have it prominently there. You want to put it maybe do you remove a little bit the opacity, so like, it's not in your face? But put some kind of context there. I don't think people do that well enough on unlogged at all?

Jaryd Krause (11:14)

Yeah. Cool. Yeah. I like it. Thinking about the journey of the user is not thought about as much by it by site owners.

Mordy Oberstein (11:25)

No. And it's messy, right? People come in, I think people think there's a funnel, right? They come in, they go here, then go there. But in reality, think about when you're buying a product, I go here, I come back, I look again, I come back again, I check something else out and come back again and look at something else. And it's really messy.

Jaryd Krause (11:41)

Yeah, it is messy. It's, not, and it’s not for the user. It's not a linear journey. So for example, Googling like the best product of something because they want like a pair of ski goggles because they go into the snow. And they check out one article with five best and they check another article out with the five best.

And then they go away and look at a few different shops that are hosted on Wix, and then they come back and just compare all these ones through tabs. It's just like, that's why I see arrows so important. And having the right things in the right place on the page is so important, right?

Mordy Oberstein (12:16)

Yeah. I mean, even in a blog, you go to the blog, you see a banner ad for the for that blog, podcast. User sees it does nothing with it a month later, you know, I really want to do a podcast about x. Oh, hey, remember, they go to your homepage. Now. They don't go back to your blog, because then they can't find your podcast.

Jaryd Krause (12:32)

Yep, yeah. So you've got a site with your top five categories or five things on your, on your navigation bar. When you get to the blog, like say it's a blog, it's in fishing, right. And it could be trout fishing, sea bass, tuna, and mackerel for different types of fish. They're the main categories, like so you've got that, like hundreds and hundreds and hundreds of articles on your site? How do you make sure even the ones that you wrote a couple of years ago? Get seen? Is it? Is it internal links? Or is it just making sure that it's very easy for the user to see all of those articles when they hit the category tab? Or category link? Yeah, so.

Mordy Oberstein (13:13)

I think there's multiple ways of internal linking is a great way. If you have a really good post one or two that should naturally be linked to right, I don't know you were talking about sea bass, you talking about the five best tips on how to catch a sea bass. So every article and every article being hyperbolic, but your articles around sea bass link to that. If you if you have a top five tips for how to catch a tuna, link to the sea bass article, also have your own, you know, if you like this article check, and I want to catching sea bass.

So that's a great way to do it. But also, again, you could do things like top picks editor picks, you know, hot picks must read, there's all sorts of ways to push that, that that content there. You can even look if you even if you just want to push that one post, like so just put I remember a lot of blogs do this. On the side on the right hand side of the of the blog is just a quick thumbnail with a bunch of posts. Yeah.

Jaryd Krause (14:07)

Yeah. Put it there. That's great. That's a great way to go. Yeah, I wanted to I want to speak about something that you mentioned on your podcast site, and it's determining underlying casualty. Like this is moving into a different topic altogether. But what do you mean? And then we're going to go into some more philosophical things around Google and stuff like that. Yeah. Okay.

Which is your jam. It's more my jam. I believe in teaching philosophies, which is similar to strategies rather than tactics and all these sorts of things. Yeah. Because those that those tactics are going to be gone and not It's not evergreen content. It's not evergreen thing for people.

Mordy Oberstein (14:44)

Going back to the fishing is giving you the fish versus teaching you how to fish.

Jaryd Krause (14:48)

Yeah, exactly. Exactly. Yeah, yeah. So I really resonated with some of your copy on your site, about you, your podcasts and what you talk about. So that's where my motivation for some of the topics so what I've picked for today are coming from the determining underlying causality. Yeah, determining underlying causality. What, what does this mean in in SEO terms? And for people that have okay.

Mordy Oberstein (15:12)

This websites? That's a really good question. So there's two ways you can take this one is like very like linear straightforward. If you're looking at like, what's profession, preventing you from ranking. So sometimes, the underlying causality is very linear. It's like I have no index the entire site that is preventing you from ranking. So I'm leaving that kind of thing aside for a minute your technical problems that you are an audit, you need to fix them like not fundamentally talking about there are more complex problems like canonical problems, where let's say, for example, your canonical tag, you're telling Google, the primary content is really this page and not this page.

And you're doing that in a wrong way too often, that can mess up your whole site. Yeah. But from a content point of view. Well, and I think it's really good. It's really coming into focus, which is where my jam is, in the SEO world is unknown. You're not ranking well, for a keyword, let's say, a really important keyword or a topic, let's say, for this particular topic. You're just not ranking well. Or you used to rank well, but all of a sudden, now you don't rank well. Yeah. What happened? Let's take the ladder, right.

You used to rank well, some other piece replaced you and now you don't rank? Well, you retrain number two. And now you're ranked number 22. Yeah, not great. What happened? And trying to thematically analyze as opposed to looking okay, I remember I changed my keyword around over here and change the h1 over here, change my title tag over there. I'm not saying those things aren't important. They can have big impact, even though that's not my general strategy. Just yeah, oh, yeah, let's fix the H ones. And all your pages that can move the needle, like don't discount that changing an h1 can be a big deal. Keyword can particularly noncompetitive areas.

But what you fundamentally want to do is look and figure out, what's the problem? And it's not usually one problem, or you don't know the one problem. There's a SEOs name is Glenn gave us a fantastic SEO, his approach is throw the kitchen sink at it. Find multiple underlying causality. So give you an example of what I mean, there was a, I was looking at one of the it was the last Google core update, which was when in May, yeah, May, I think it was May 2020. Yeah. The May 2022. Core update. Yeah.

And there was I think it was a Health line page, or a very well health page, one of these big health websites, and they had a, they had a piece on bipolar disorder, and they lost a lot of ranking, they went from ranking number two to ranking like number 10, which is really significant. That’s not what you want. And there was a piece of the NHS has also been bumped up instead of them kind of replace them, I think, a swap on the SERP. Trying to figure out like, what was wrong with this page.

And there could be multiple things, I'm just telling you one thing that I thought was wrong the page and I'm not crapping on the page, it was it's a pretty good page, find content. But clearly, there was a problem, Google had a problem with it. And what they did was I forgot the exact terminology. But there's three different types or multiple types of bipolar disorder. And obviously a really important topic, you don't want to mess this up.

And nuance really matters, right? And the third category is one that from what I can tell from reading the Mayo Clinic or WebMD, and Harvard health as a category that's like, kind of people aren't 100%? Sure. Is it really bipolar disorder or not? Okay. And the way that the sites that are ranking really well portrayed is exactly is that there's this other kind of form out there, we're not 100% Scientists are not 100% sure of this really, part of the spectrum of bipolar disorder really is something else, but here it is.

And they kind of put that caveat out there. The very well health page didn't and it just presented it and it did it in prominent places like the subheading. Here it is, here are the three categories. This one is the third category unequivocally. So that's really like not great. Not so that was like one and a finding that out is not you have to read all the like skimming, you have to read ALL Yeah. Okay.

Jaryd Krause (19:08)

This is the best thing about our me. Sorry, this is I just sorry, want to interject with interject here because people that come in looking at this with a very technical SEO approach are looking at alright, what have they like? They were just ticking all the boxes of the SEO stuff that you need to do for the for the piece of content, because the great thing is you've got to comparable, right? If you've got a comparable, that's excellent.

And you can look at your one that's at 10 rank 10 there too. So one went down, one went up, why? And you just most SEOs might just go or people that are new to this, just go this is an SEO problem. And well, their belief would be that and just try and find out what they're doing and start ticking all those boxes. This two page rank to one for their page rank. 10 wanted to bring it back up, but they're not going Oh, hang on a second. How Like Google view, what? How they've written the content and how they're presented the content. And then how does Google want to present that to its users?

So the one that was two has been ranked a 10. Now, because you can you may be confusing the users with your content versus these other one, which, which how? Somebody, they just don't this is this having a very different mindset around it. Right?

Mordy Oberstein (20:26)

That's what Yeah, well, that's what it is. It's First off, it's a mindset, like it's not a list. And I think sometimes SEO is pigeonhole themselves into thinking, Okay, well, I only do technical SEO, or I only do content SEO. So I'm only going to look at one area of the look, I focus on content. But I'm not, I'm not going to ignore the technical SEO, that's crazy. But technical issues to do the same thing. They shouldn't ignore the content either. But it's very much a mindset. It's thinking, okay, like, look, Google's pretty smart.

Obviously, there's still enormous amount of gaps are not perfect, blah, blah, blah. But they're pretty smart. I, the example I always give is from my cousin used to be the head of SEO at Survey Monkey. So he's live in Palo Alto, they used to have the self-driving Google card being tested out in his neighborhood. And he told me, Google, the car can tell when a squirrel jumps in front of it versus a person. That's freaking amazing. Right? There's a tin of itself, that doesn't mean that yeah, that's phenomenal. But So you mean to tell me like the company that can do that can understand like this word on your page well enough, like, come on? It doesn't make any sense. Yeah, that's right.

So it's approaching Google's a complex beast. And having the mindset that in order to reverse engineer what Google's doing, you have to think a little bit the Mac automatically thinking about your content? And what are the latest signals that you're sending off in your content to users, you're probably also giving those officers or engines or at least Google. Yeah.

Jaryd Krause (21:51)

Yeah, I did. See you write about that's how you thematically look at and digest problems. Through that through that lens and use that as a strategy, which I was going to I was going to bring up for discussion as well. I want to talk about concepts. So Google concepts, right? That you teach and talk about, for example, like SEOs love to focus on things like the ranking factors, and these things, you know, ticking boxes and stuff like that. LSI keywords, and you know, blah, blah, he wants to use all these other things.

Okay, well, let's, let's, let's talk about let's, let's bookmark some LSI stuff. And then let's come back to it. Let's, let's go to the concepts, and then we'll come back to the LSI keywords, because I'm fine. Yeah. So yeah. Tell us about some Yeah, some concepts in Google concepts that you'd like to explain.

Mordy Oberstein (22:45)

So it's very, very similar to what I mentioned before, right. So Google, look, Google's a really complex algorithm, and they're trying to understand content and websites the way that people might. So it's really just trying to see what they're doing in terms of that and pulling out insights. So for example, I'm trying to think of a good example top my head tone, right? So you and I understand tone, like, see if I'm, like, you know, kind of annoyed at you. You'll figure it out. Yeah, Google does the same thing.

So one of the things I think an SEO concept that you should focus on this is what machine learning fundamentally does. Is that a profiles language, and I think it's something that SEO is don't talk about, we talked about language, we're talking about keywords like forget your key recovery keywords. Like by the way, the page that replaced the very well health page that was talking about didn't contain the keyword at all, like that phrase, it all was not on the page didn't exist.

Jaryd Krause (23:35)

This exercise was still under thought it was this really, yeah, it's me because it just going to make people it's going to, and it’s going to not that I want to stuff up a lot of SEOs. But it's going to allow people to drop the whole super technical check the boxes as an SEO and create content for humans.

Mordy Oberstein 23:54

I am Look, look, sometimes the keyword matters, right? You can find these gaps. Like for my podcast website, I put the word best I literally have like a blurb like I put the word best here to see if it helped my rankings. Yes, I did. Yeah. And it did.

Yeah, because Google has a gap there. And that's fine. Google is not perfect yet. But as a concept overly people are overly focused on keywords, they get hung up on keywords, see what you know, our user base always has questions about keywords. I'm always imploring them to just write naturally. What other words are you going to use? Other than the keywords if you're writing to your users in a quality manner?

Jaryd Krause (24:25)

Yeah, it's gone like LSI is a form as is a fancy form or updated version of keyword stuffing from back in the day.

Mordy Oberstein (24:32)

Basically, yeah, they don't exist. And Google says like, those are not a thing at all. It's something thing from the 80s. What are you guys talking about? Stop. But as a concept, your Google's looking at your website and profiling in a lot of different ways is profiling.

So like for example, if I've seen pages were, I think, going back to 2019 with this one in the September 2019 core update. One of the cool things I saw with that one and Lilly re hammer is happening very, very similar at the same time, just another great SEO which follow her thing it was.

Jaryd Krause (25:00)

Ah, to be honest, Lily rave, and she lives in New York.

Mordy Oberstein (25:03)

She lives in New York. She's fantastic. Yeah. She's.

Jaryd Krause (25:05)

Been on I forget what episode number? Oh, she's great. She's a great human being.

Mordy Oberstein (25:10)

She's amazing. Yeah. So one of the things that I saw was, it was a bunch of pages around business loans. And there was a lot in some of the pages that loss rankings they were it's an informational page, even though it's a landing page, if you make the mistake all the time for something like a loan, or something and have a heart attack prevention.

Yeah, you might have a landing page there, you got to be really informational, because you're really messing around with people's put, and their financial health and their literal health and whatever case you're taking here. Yeah. And a bunch of these pages are putting content in like of small business loan is, a lifesaver. It's a classic. And Google profile, the language, obviously, it can understand tone, the way when I saw that I cringe as a used car.

But Google does it by profiling language types, like, oh, they put language in that, according to our profile, is overly marketing on an informational landing page. Yeah, and Google does this all of the time. And literally, it's what machine learning is built to do is built to create a profile around language, and then match up its profile to what you're doing on your website. And if you don't match up, you're well, you're screwed.

Jaryd Krause (26:20)

Phenomenal, phenomenal. So do you think Bing is looking at the same kind of like, trying to catch up to Google with the same sorts of concepts?

Mordy Oberstein (26:29)

I think being sometimes in a weird way is ahead of Google when it comes to machine learning and AI, because it's Microsoft. And they've been doing this for a long, long, long, long time. And a lot of the things around implementing mummers, one of the new machine learning properties, Bing has been doing that for a while now. Google is also doing it now.

So there's a lot of cool things that Bing does, you could see it and how they and how they construct their results page. They're served, they have all sorts of really cool things going on. And they think they're very ahead in the machine learning game. I don't know what it is about them. I'm not on that level that makes it that they just don't have the same kind of quality results. I think Google has Yeah, I know, people may argue no being is just as good or being as better. But when I've used it, I've had a harder time. It just me personally, I'm not trying to.

Jaryd Krause (27:16)

Use? Yes. It can be yeah.

Mordy Oberstein (27:21)

But I don't know, I think in some ways, like, for example, I'll tell you one of the things ahead, do you see Google doing this now? So featured snippets. So when you Google something, you guys know how to change a tire. And Google has a whole like, step one, step two in and then they have a URL at the bottom of that little box.

Bing has had a format for years, where they're showing you multiple answers in a carousel. So it's like multi perspective answers. And Google has been over the recent months testing out formats like that. Yeah. So and Google will steal a lot of the way that being constructed results page all the time.

Jaryd Krause (27:54)

Yeah, yeah. Yeah, guys. So yeah, keep note, Bing, can be good. Now, it's still coming back to concepts, right? These can be being concepts, they could be Google concepts as well.

How would you go about, I have some ideologies of how I would sort of try and teach somebody to look through the lens and look for concepts and possible future concepts that would Google and Bing would use, but how would you if you were to explain to somebody like, hey, like, Yes, you. There’s some boxes that you need to take with the SEO and keywords are important.

And, you know, having your content laid out the right way. And it being great content is good. There's a bunch of those things, but also, how would you how would you share or try and instill in somebody? How to understand thinking about concepts?

Mordy Oberstein (28:47)

I mean, I don't it's a good question. Because it how do you tell somebody? How do you see the people who are very practically minded, that's a good thing, and they should be doing X thing. And then people who are more conceptually minded isn't doing y thing. So I think there's a natural inclination, and I don't think you should do what's good for you and how you operate. But if you're asking me as somebody who's already has an inclination, I mean, look, I just tell you what I do. And you can say, if that works for you or not, yeah.

One is I try as much as I possibly can to keep up to date on what's happening, and then trying to read between the lines like what does that mean? So for example, give you a good example. Google has a type of update called the product review updates and it's basically looking to see for pages specifically product review pages, how good are these reviews are people are actually using the products they're reviewing and those kinds of things? They made it an announcement version, someone asked him a question maybe a month or two ago, and is this only in English? Or does this product review update applied to other languages? And Google said only English and like okay, so that was like a lightbulb moment.

Why is it only English like Why wouldn't I do it all language? Why wouldn't you do it at all language and to me, and this is where you're getting your critical theory and it's a basically it's an intuition base, a lot of other things that are going on I'm not saying this in a vacuum is based on a now analyzing a bunch of the previous updates, but what I think is going on as a Google is trying to profile language around review content. For example, going back to an earlier point, if I actually use a product, I'll use a different language structure than I would have, I didn't actually use the product.

So if I didn't use a product, you'll do something like you know, pro, it vacuums, rugs really well. And you'll leave it at that. If you actually use the product. If you're writing good content, you'll tend to modify that statement like, Ah, great on rugs, except for pet hair. Yeah. Yep. And then except, is a modifier and a different language profile. Why is Google only working in English because it's currently still building the model and a profile language?

Mordy Oberstein (30:00)

In a vacuum is based on a noun analyzing a bunch of the previous updates. But what I think is going on as a Google is trying to profile language around review content. For example, going back to an earlier point, if I actually use a product, I'll use a different language structure than I would if I didn't actually use a product. So if I didn't use a product, you'll do something like it vacuums, rugs really well.

And you'll leave it at that, If you actually use the product. If you're writing good content, you'll tend to modify that statement like eighth grade on rugs, except for pet hair. Yeah. Yep. And then except is a modifier and a different language profile. Why is Google only working in English because it's currently still building the model to profile language?

Jaryd Krause (30:42)

So number one is basically to keep up to date with where Google is heading. To be honest, I don't like I'm not an SEO and I don't stay up super up to date with like, all the things that are happening and what's coming down the pike with SEO, I speak to a lot of great SEOs like yourself, and Lily Ray, and I pick up a lot of great things. But the way I see it, is that if I can put myself in the shoes of the user, for Google, or for Bing, how could I create the best possible content, the best solid possible site structure, internal links, all these sorts of things for me, and make it so good, that it's better than I could have expected as a user when I go to the site.

And looking at it through that lens, then I would understand, I would see that Google would like to optimize for that, as well. Yeah, that's the way I would like I sort of perceive it is like, if there was a concept on how to try and think about how Google would reward my content, and my site with rankings and traffic is make just make the content like, better than what the user could expect. Like go above and beyond. Yeah, and how could Google not put that in front of people? Like I'd be hard for them not to. Amazing, amazing.

And whilst we were chatting, I pulled up Lilly Ray’s episode. It's episode 164 analysis for a clickbaity title, “Why deleting contents can win you more traffic with SEO”. So go guys and check out that Podcast Episode 164. But also make sure you check out Marty's podcast as well. There'll be links to that in the show notes. For those of you are listening.

Thank you so much for listening. If you are going to own a content website, make sure you listen to this again, if you know somebody else who is going to own a content website, either they've got one or they're about to own one. Make sure you share this podcast episode with them. Yes, selfishly. It helps me and Mordy help more people, but you're helping people directly as well by sharing this with them.

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Jaryd Krause is a serial entrepreneur who helps people buy online businesses so they can spend more time doing what they love with who they love. He’s helped people buy and scale sites all the way up to 8 figures – from eCommerce to content websites. He spends his time surfing and traveling, and his biggest goals are around making a real tangible impact on people’s lives. 

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