Ep 254: The Difference Between Managing A Content Website & Growing A Content Website Raf and Rad

Jaryd Krause:

Are you managing your website or are you growing it? And when should you manage it? And then, when should you grow it? Hi, I'm Jaryd Krause. I'm the host of the Buying Online Businesses Podcast. And today, I'm speaking with Rad Paluszak, who is a web developer and a software architect with 20 years’ experience. He's been a technical mastermind in the SEO industry since 2010 and now heads up our BOB SEO team with another partner, Rafal.

Rafal is now a boss at managing an agency and a team and getting results for people in the SEO space. And Rad and Raf have been working together for a long period of time, just getting incredible scale and growth for people's content websites.

And in this podcast episode, we end up talking about what it looks like to manage a content website. What are the tasks involved in managing a content website? And then what is growing a content website? What does that look like and what's the strategy?

Some of the guys share a few different strategies that we have used to achieve great success for our clients in growing their content websites. And we talk about the difference between when you should manage your content website and when you should grow it, the different levels of business you get to and how to scale before you manage rather than just buying a content website and managing it.

Now, there are so many pitfalls that people don't get and don't understand where they're going to buy a content website, and they think that sometimes their management is actually going to be their growth strategy. And sometimes, when things happen, like an update or when the environment changes, they believe that what they're doing in terms of their management, they want to grow it.

They just need to double their inputs or do more of it. Whereas what we've actually found is true, the opposite is true. Normally, you need to pivot with the environment and the changes and make sure that your site and your content become far more valuable through a different growth strategy, and then start managing them as well.

And we talk about how that can be done through this podcast episode. And there are so many golden nuggets with different analogies that we use as well. So if you own a content website or are thinking about buying a content website and wanting to grow it, you must listen to this podcast episode. Let's dive in.

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Raf and Rad, welcome back to the podcast.

Rad:

Hi. Thanks for having us.

Raf:

Thank you for having us.

Jaryd Krause:

I'm excited to chat about so many different topics today that I think are going to be so important for people to understand once they've bought a content website. The landscape, we always get on a call, and we just straight away end up talking about the SEO landscape. And you said, Rad, it's like a tsunami has hit and it used to be beautiful. Now it's a bit of a cleanup process and we're deep in the weeds of cleaning this up, especially for a lot of clients.

And I think we need to bring light to what was working or what most people believed was working for a long period of time and, I think, still continue to believe is going to work versus what needs to be done now. And it could be a combination of two things. And I want us to break down the difference between what managing a website looks like and what growing a content website looks like because they are different.

And as we talked about before, when we hit the record buttons, at times there's going to be certain strategies to run forward with managing and then there's going to be certain strategies we need to flip on their heads and then grow. And then there's people listening that are going to be like, “When do I do each of those things? And how do I know when to do them or why or how?” And yeah, I think we'd have a good discussion around that. So let's talk about management. Let's talk about what managing a website is. What does that look like?

Raf:

Right, that's a very good question because there are a lot of concepts flying around about what website management actually is. So the way we understand it and the way we provide it is that we're basically rolling your strategy.

So if you come into us with a strategy, like, “Hey, Raf, this is the plan. This is my plan for the site. This is what I need.” and you say that about your strategy,. You don't want to discuss it with us, change it or whatever. Then we can provide you with the package of the service when you have fantastic quality content, fantastic quality links and website technical optimizations if needed.

So if you have a portfolio of sites, and you might even have your own internal team, but you're lacking resources, you come to us. We put a package together in front of you for each individual site and then we can just run it for you.

It's a very popular service and very many people use it. Obviously, it stands in opposition to the growth management service for SEO, which is different, but we'll talk about it in a second.

And one more word about website management services is that the way we approach it is kind of unique. Because other agencies tend to have pre-made packages. Like, “Hey, you need to definitely pay us 1,500, 2.5K, or 4K and this is a website management service for you.” We know SEO needs flexibility and we're flexible. Therefore, we have a block system. Meaning, we have pre-made solutions, but you can build them like a leg of blocks, basically.

So if you come to us with a number of sites or even your own site, then we have three elements there, which are content, link building, and tech SEO. And we're using those blocks to create a structure for you to support your website. So it's pretty flexible.

It's pretty easy to understand how it works. You know exactly what you're getting. We know exactly what you need. So this is kind of an old-fashioned but unique service. So we're trying to modernize this kind of old approach to SEO here.

Rad:

I think it's also pretty much worth mentioning that even in the world post-tsunami, as you mentioned, where Google's throwing one update after the other, obviously the growth strategy itself is pretty important. Because, as we've already said numerous times during the podcast together, growing a site is as important as growing your business and treating the site as a business.

However, I think if your strategy works and brings you money and the site is doing well and is gaining more traffic, it's not stagnating, which doesn't necessarily mean that you need to find an SEO company or find a consultant to change something. It’s pretty easy to have this sort of shiny object syndrome where someone sells you something; essentially, we can tell that we can sell you something. But this change isn't needed.

Yet on the other hand, it's also pretty important not to just default to the same old, same old. As much as we are happy and will help you, you have to find a balance between what's working and the status quo for your website, as long as it is working and worth doing. That's where website management comes in handy.

However, like I said, don't just get caught up with doing the same things as you've always been doing and hoping that they'll always work. Because, as we know, reality is a bit tricky because it might change at the whim of the Google gods, let's say.

Jaryd Krause:

Yeah, absolutely. Well, I think so. Clearly, managing your site is like fixing some tech things, updating some plugins, and then just making sure that maybe you're doing a little bit of link building to stay kind of where you're at and maybe adding some content or updating some content as you go through.

That's basically a management service. It's not kind of out-of-the-box thinking of, “How do I triple or double my traffic?” It's basically just keeping your head above the water and making sure the site doesn't depreciate or decay.

And I think that's important for people to understand. Because when they are buying a site, and I don't know if you guys realize this as SEOs, the marketplace is selling businesses and content sites without any expenses for content and links as well, and they add them as an add back. Whereas for everybody listening, actually, we don't take that.

My clients and I don't buy businesses like that. We do something very, very different. We ensure that we are not just buying something that doesn't have expenses; to maintain a site, you need to spend money on it and/or resources on it. But then, if you want to grow it, it's a bit of a different story.

So sometimes you just buy the site, and you can just manage it and it will just chug along and grow a little bit. Maybe that is a way to get a little bit of traffic, but it's typically not going to be the way to quadruple or get those excessive gains in growth. So it's usually a little bit of outside-the-box thinking.

So that's where I want to ask you guys, what does it look like when you do something a little bit differently? What do those growth strategies look like? And what are a couple of those that you guys could explain that we've had to sort of work on and start implementing since this helpful content tsunami came about?

Raf:

I think this tsunami is actually sticking with us for a moment with the helpful content update. That's a fabulous name for it, because this is exactly what we are saying. Circling back to what you were saying about website management versus growth, once we're talking, I thought I could explain this like that as well.

Website management is basically hiring a gardener to maintain your garden to make sure it's beautiful. It's growing what it's supposed to. But nothing major, just maintaining this. It's still beautiful, but it's not going to win any contest for the best garden in LA, whatever. And opposition to the growth phase is actually hiring a new garden architect that comes into your place sand says “No, I mean, I think in order to grow this, we need to do X, Y, and Z.”

So putting a plan together in front of you—a strategy, a structure for the future—. Because a garden needs a couple years to grow, the same is true for sites. You sometimes need a couple years to actually reach the point where you can sell them for millions. As with every business, it does not happen over time. You need time to build that. So I hope that explains things—what's the difference between managing the site and growing the site?

So growing business is a huge topic. Here are a few examples of how we do it and how we approach it. We are big fans of AI. We know quite a lot about machine learning. We've been working on this for a while. Not since last year, prior to the so-called AI revolution. So we've been using that. We've been testing various resources and building our own things. So basically, from our perspective, here is the unique opportunity.

Years ago, when you wanted to have an engine, like, I know, the content discovery engine or affiliate e-commerce on your side or anything major made by a programmatic approach or programmatic solutions, you had to hire a lot of designers. You have to have a lot of coders. Endless dollars, basically and a year to do that.

Right now, an SEO agency like ours can do that for you. So we can put an e-commerce site that works on affiliate links, and we can pull thousands of products into your shop. So we can add you to this feature.

So what I'm trying to say is that that's the growth strategy. Let's imagine a situation, but actually, that's a real situation from one of our clients that we work with. You are in a food niche. And since the helpful content update, you have had a website management service. And the website was doing well. And the helpful content update came along and you're losing traffic. You're losing traffic significantly.

And then you're looking at what your competitors do. I mean, especially those who are not losing traffic. And they have an entire e-commerce section. And they have other features like audio files for every single recipe or more AI-created videos, stuff like that. The entire ecosystem keeps their users entertained so they’re growing.

So this is the moment when you're supposed to be thinking, Okay, I don't need website management anymore. Because that will just mean we are going to maintain what we have, and I don't want to maintain what we have because others are growing. I want to grow, too. There's money to be made.

So the way we approach this is exactly like that. We come into, you say, “Hey, here is a detailed month-to-month plan. No more links or content for three months, for example. We are going to do e-commerce for you. We are going to pull all those products.

We're going to generate thousands and thousands of descriptions for each individual product with AI via a programmatic approach. Content is going to be unique and content is going to be fantastic quality. And then you're going to have a very unique feature on your site. So something that can help you compete with the competitors.”

And that also satisfies users and a solution like that satisfies Google. Because what Google is looking for at the moment, in many niches and in most languages, is actually to keep users on the site not just reading the content but also listening to the content, watching the content, making purchases or registrations, or taking part in trivia games on the site. Many things.

Jaryd Krause:

Yeah, I love it.

Raf:

So this is the growth thing. We’re thinking from a growth perspective and how you can actually compete with your competitors and also make more money in the future.

Jaryd Krause:

Yeah, I love it. I love it. And I think it's worth just saying that that's one strategy based on one of our clients, and that's one strategy that can work. There are other ones as well. So that's a great example.

And I think it's worth stating, the same as a landscaping thing, that you can maintain where your garden's at, but you don't want to keep that site where it's at. Or if it's lost rankings and lost traffic, you don't want to maintain where it's currently because it's lost traffic and rankings.

So you're going to need to go through a bit of a growth method. There's going to be some growing pains. There's going to be some resources and time needed to be spent to be able to see how that behaves. And then once it's all done—all that growth is done—you can go back into maintenance mode.

Then you can go back into management mode, like, “Cool, we've got this garden looking as good as it can be. It's going to do exceptionally well on the market. And now we just need to maintain it until when Google or users come along, it doesn't start to decay over time. It just maintains. It's become more beautiful and beautiful and beautiful and beautiful.”

That's what I want to mention. There's different times for management and there's different times for growth.

Raf:

It's like with business—every business. You need to develop your growth strategy. Then, once you're done, you need to look at what you've built. You need to search for little fixes and modifications and maintain the status quo for a moment because it's working. And then prepare for another jump. You can't be jumping all the time. The same way, you can't stagnate all the time. I mean, you need that moment to think about it and make informed business decisions.

And I have a perfect example for this. One of our clients as well. And I love this client and I love this website. I'm not sure if I can state the name at this stage. Maybe we'll link to it later. But anyway, the thing is that this is exactly what we offered him. And he loved it, and it works like crazy. Helpful content update, not helpful content update, a couple of hundred percent of growth every eight weeks.

We started with a standard approach to learning the niche and the site for three months. Then we built a growth plan when we built thousands of new pages for him and unique features for another three months.

Then we got back to website management service, when we started building content around those new topics, around those new factors, around those new features. And it's growing like crazy, and the site makes money via old methods. I mean, banners and affiliate links, and also subscriptions for courses now, which is a completely new method and a couple of other things.

So I'm thinking this is exactly what you were saying, and this is super, super important for everyone to understand that having a website settled down. And then you don't spend more money for a moment, or you spend very little to manage what you've invested in. But it needs to be a continued exercise.

And also, what I want to say as well, the worst possible scenario for any business owner, but especially for a website owner in the current landscape, is going crazy and growing it for two or three months and then getting bored with it and stepping down and saying, “No, that's too expensive,” or “It's not working as fast as it should.” And well, it's not going to be working in months two or three. It needs time. Every investment really needs time to grow. But once it does, it actually produces a lot of money for a long time. So it's super important to measure what you can invest.

So if you have, I don't know, $10,000 to invest, if you want to work with us, talk with us. We put together a plan that uses your investment wisely. So we would not recommend going crazy in two months and spending it all and then we would have no money left to maintain what we built. No.

We can help create a plan that uses 10K, for example, to build a strategy even for a year, if necessary. Different intensity. But that's fully okay. This is exactly how life works and how business works there.

Rad:

Yeah. One thing I just wanted to drop in because we're talking about Google updates and this division between growth and maintenance. So after a series of Google updates that Google served us pretty recently, we had a lot of clients that signed up for our growth service as sort of a revamp of SEO to redevelop the site.

Because if they were hit with a helpful content update where Google says, “Oh, your site has to have a better purpose than just generating traffic through search engines.” we've been developing growth strategies.

But using those two analogies that we've mentioned earlier, it is in tsunamis and landscaping. When the tsunami hits your garden, it's obviously a good idea to start the cleanup and start the restructuring, revamping and hiring of this whole landscaping company.

However, we've also had clients, one of whom Rafal mentioned, and I'm hoping we're soon going to have a really nice case study around. We've been working on their site for a little while and helpful content updates just went past it totally. So it's like you've already done the landscaping; you've built an irrigation system around the garden so that the tsunami doesn't really affect it.

I think this is important because obviously, when we're speaking about after you get hit, this is where you definitely know, okay, I don't need maintenance because there's pretty much not much to maintain anymore. And you need to go into full on growth mode, even though it might sound scary that you need to perhaps spend a little bit more. But hey, if you've lost traffic, you're trying to recover it. And ideally, you're trying to recover it as soon as possible.

But this is easy because it is there. I'm also trying to say that when the going gets easy and you're just maintaining it, don't lose this northern star of the growth of your business. And don't just default to simple maintenance because there might come a time when it just doesn't work.

And like I said, the landscape changes, the update hits, and then you're forced to invest more. But the problem with that is that you are mainly working under pressure because you have immense pressure and threats to your business. And you perhaps might have spared yourself all of that hassle post-update.

Jaryd Krause:

Yeah, absolutely. That's a really good point. I think most people are afraid of the changes that Google makes. But at the end of the day, if you can foresee what Google wants and if you see them as your business partner—I've said this so many times—you can set your garden up to be satisfactory that Google and the landscape actually are like, “This is really awesome.

We love it. Let's not tear down this garden. Let's leave it be because it's beautiful. It's working. People are loving it. Let's even make that a standard and let's give them a little bit more traffic. Let's give them a little bit more because they've done the things that we've asked them to do.”

And that's what you can get from changing your mindset of, “I just need to buy this site; maintain it.” To buy this site, put a portion of your budget into a growth strategy and then maintain it to make sure that you can weather the storm, literally, when it comes. And that's where most people are in fear is like, “Oh, these things are happening. These things are changing.”

And I want to come back to this relationship people have with fear. And then also what you were mentioning, Raf, around Google is actually wanting people to spend longer on the website with entertaining content, valuable content, going through shops, going through tools and calculators and other things that enrich those guests that are coming to your site and that traffic to your site. And a lot of people are fearing, like, “Oh, AI content. If you can just create all of this AI content, then are there going to be sites? Is it worth having a content site anymore?”

But the game is not AI just here to create content. Like where you guys are using it to create shops and to create different departments in and on websites that keep people on the website, that the whole industry is not even talking about. And people don't get it. They're listening to these YouTube channels, these podcasts and these influencers that are just regurgitating content that they have no idea. They haven't learned what's actually working and what's not working because they're not in the game that is regurgitating it. What do you have to say to those people that are fearing, like, “Oh, we're doomed because AI content is going to decimate all content sites?" The reality is, you guys don't understand the game properly.

Rad:

I think, as you were speaking, you actually quickly defied that point exactly. Because the way I look at it, AI content, especially a few months ago, especially amidst this whole ChatGPT revolution, everyone was tapping on to OpenAI's API and just bashing out thousands upon thousands of words of content, and it worked well.

I've seen a lot of influencers coming up on their channels and saying, “Oh, look, I've built this website. It has 5,000 articles, that much content. And look, within a few months, it's making 300,000 visits now. And it's great. I've cracked the AI game.” But then exactly the helpful content update hit, and I've seen a lot of these sites just totally destroyed.

And that just proves that looking at AI content purely as “Oh, I can just generate a lot of words, a lot of text” is not the way forward. Because that defies or stands exactly against this principle that Google puts at the forefront of helpful content updates with the website actually having some purpose. And a perfect example that Rafal gave is this additional e-commerce leg that we've built on one of our clients' websites. That was something that, when we observed the entire niche, a few sites that stood untouched after the series of updates had performed very badly but still implemented an e-commerce wing on their website.

So they just hit the shop with not even that many products, but that was at least something that showed Google that, “Oh, so this site isn't just about, I don't know, let's say, recipes.” Because every website can scrape recipes. Like you said—

Jaryd Krause:

Regurgitate.

Rad:

Regurgitate.

Jaryd Krause:

Yeah, that's what AI tools do. Well, AI text tools, anyway, the ones that you guys have developed that can scrape text, and that, in a fashion, is actually put together in a consumable manner, but not just for people to read as content.

I don't think people understand the buyer's journey or the journey of somebody going through the start to finish of learning to surf or wanting to do something. And when they go to a website, they have everything they need at each part of their journey that they're going through in that hobby or whatever it is they're partaking in.

They have the education phase—which is one thing—of content. Cool. Education phase in texts these days. Cool. Who cares about texts? I hate reading. You got people to send me an email. I just struggle with it. I would rather listen and watch things. And that's where we're going.

And that's how we're going to keep people on the site—pictures, images, audio, and video. And then also, AI is going to create that sort of content, but it's not going to be great. Let's be honest. The video and the content are not very up there yet in AI.

Raf:

Not yet, yeah.

Jaryd Krause:

But it will get there. And then that's just one piece. That's the education piece. What if I then go? All right, I know what sort of stuff I need to get if I'm going to learn to surf; where do I get it? Boom. It's on the site. There's a shop right there. And then, all right, cool. Once I buy that, how do I even use this piece of equipment? Subscription, coaching, whatever it is.

Think of your business more than just a content site these days; more like an actual business that is helping people go from zero to hero on their journey in whichever niche you have. And I think that just completely writes off, like, “Oh no, AI content is going to destroy all content sites.” Yeah. It's because you're not understanding that it's not a content site; it needs to be a business.

Raf:

Indeed. Yeah, yeah. I wouldn't phrase it better like that. That's perfect. Jaryd.

Jaryd Krause:

Thanks.

Raf:

It’s exactly where my head is.

Rad:

It shows perfectly how this mindset shift can allow you to—exactly that example you gave with surfing and then storefront, and how this allows you to create an ecosystem around your website.

And as we can learn from, I don't know, Amazon or some really good e-commerce websites overall, if you're creating this ecosystem, people are happy, you can make more money and it's all just pans out for your business. It allows you to grow it, allows you to earn more money and allows you to—in the context of SEO and Google—be more on the safe side because you're adding this value to the site.

Jaryd Krause:

Absolutely, yeah.

Raf:

And also, worth mentioning, is the bigger picture here. If you really think about it, Google is trying to maintain resources. So we have had a flood of AI content in different ways, shapes, and forms for the past three years now, to be honest, but last year was crazy. So Google had to do it. Google had to implement helpful content updates, for God's sake.

Jaryd Krause:

Absolutely.

Raf:

I mean, that's all your reason for them to actually stay profitable, probably in this area, in the crawling and searching area. So they had to do it. The first helpful content update, if I recall correctly, was in December last year. Like a year from now. And the other one was in September this year.

So Google is going to keep doing this, probably for a while. They need to cut off the AI content. Why? Because AI content is super good. In most cases, you might not be able to tell the difference between AI and human content these days. That's why Google is searching for real sites with real authority and different ways to entertain people.

And for smart business owners and smart content site owners, that's really the best moment for your business. Even if this sounds ridiculous because your site is going down, this is exactly the perfect moment. You can build a business, not a site.

And business is algorithmic proof because it's a business and interacts with people in different ways. And in comparison to the content site, it's not algorithmic proof. Never is going to be. There's always a risk of another change.

So you need to think about it in a completely different way, and then you're going to be a happy person. Because if it's done well, it offers a lot, and then it's going to be making new money for years. And if you're going to sell it, you're going to sell it for a lot higher multiplier than usual. Because it's not just the content that you sell. You're selling a business that has a lot of users, a lot of people on their newsletter list and a lot of features.

And one more thing to mention here is super important for everyone considering buying a content site or getting into the game as a newbie, that Google is not trying to fight you. You are not an enemy to Google, but you can be a friend.

And Google is telling you, “Well, in a nutshell, I'm fighting TikTok and short attention span, basically. So give me something that people can entertain with on your site. I'm going to love you. I'm going to love you. I'm going to kiss you.

You're going to make a lot of money. It's all going to be okay. Don't worry about it. But don't give me 7,000-word articles about how to cook a fish because my AI already knows it and I don't care.”

Jaryd Krause:

Yeah, absolutely. Absolutely. And yeah, I mean, that's the exact thing Google's saying, “This is what we need. Give us what we need.” And if you listen to them, you can be a great business partner and you can both win in the long run.

Raf:

A hundred percent. I mean, there are flaws in the algorithm and there are black hunters that can use it. But that's a way to risk a game. If you want to build a solid business, you can basically align with what Google says about the content layer.

Because in many other aspects of what Google is saying, it is actually for their own convenience. So it's not necessarily helping you. But on the content layer and how the content is supposed to be engaging with people, this is exactly what Google wants and it's perfectly aligned with what people want these days. So you just need to stick with that. And you're going to be good.

Jaryd Krause:

Perfect way to wrap it up. Thanks, Raf. Thanks, Rad, for coming on. Everybody who wants to learn more about the SEO service and how we work with people will find a link in the show notes to that. And yeah, I really appreciate these chats, guys. I'm sure people are going to ask and request more.

Raf:

All right. Thank you very much. Yeah, it was a pleasure, as always. Happy to share whatever we know about that.

Rad:

Yeah. It was lovely speaking to you as always. Thank you very much.

Jaryd Krause:

Thanks, guys.

Raf:

Cheers.

Jaryd Krause:

Everybody that is listening as well, I don't typically ask for you guys to do much. I put out so much content. There are a lot of resources that go into this podcast. And yeah, if you find this valuable, please go away and leave a review; at least subscribe.

If you're not subscribing, I don't know what you're still doing. Make sure you subscribe, but also leave a review. And, of course, I greatly appreciate it. And I'll speak to you guys on the next one.

Hey, YouTube watchers, if you thought that video was good, you should check out this video here on the 2 Best Types of Websites Beginners Should Buy. Or check out my playlist on How I Made My First $100k Buying Websites and how to do due diligence. Check it out. It's an awesome playlist. You'll enjoy it.