Ep 377: 10 Small Biz Acquisitions & Content Website Recovery Strategies with Brock Yates

ChatsCBT came out, and I think overnight, I mean, like most people in the content space, I lost 50 % and even, you know, dropped down 95. I was making 5 % of what I used to make, and then back to square one again.

Hey, Jaryd Krause, host of the Buying Online Businesses podcast. And today I'm speaking with Brock Yates. He is an independent publisher behind GMT Central and All Turtles, where he builds practical content brands for enthusiast audiences.

His work focuses on SEO content strategy and adapting niche websites or content websites to major changes in how people search for these businesses. In this pod, we talk about how many small businesses and content websites or e-commerce brands.

Brock has actually acquired why he got into acquisitions and how it helped him get out of his day job and earn passive income. We also talk about how he was affected by the Google content and helpful search content update, and how it decimated so many content sites, including his own, and what he has done to recover and build his content sites into actual brands with good content, and build out different arms to the business to build a proper brand that is a sustainable business.

Now there's so much value in this pod. We talk about his advice, first-time buyers, we talk about building relationships with sellers, and due diligence. We also talk about how to grow content websites in this day and age, with search changing ever so much with AI. And there's so much value in this pod. I'm sure you're going to love it.

Brock, thanks for jumping on the pod and welcome.

Thank you for having me.

Yeah, absolutely. Super excited to chat about your experience as a buyer of online businesses. And I think even maybe a brick and mortar offline business, but yeah, your story is more so around what to, what, like a realistic approach, you know, around buying a business expectations, and then what we can do when things don't go to plan.

Appreciate it.

Because this is investing, right? And life, all things go to plan. So before we start about that and talk about, I'm excited to open the box on what you've done to stay in the game and keep a positive outlook and to keep going and to make this your full-time thing. But what made you move to acquiring a business or an online business? When and why?

Yeah. So, uh, I moved, I moved abroad back in 2011, and essentially my life kind of changed overnight. I lived in the U S before, and then I moved to Switzerland,d and I quit my job in the U.S., when I got to Switzerland within three weeks, I managed to essentially find a job, and that essentially doubled my income overnight.

Uh, which was totally unexpected. I didn't have any expenses either. I didn't have a car, anything like that. So my quality of life changed, and then I had a little bit of extra money, and I was trying to figure out, like everybody, where can I put my money, and it just magically grows.

So I started searching passive income ideas, and somehow I stumbled across a website called Flipup, and then I kind of just randomly bought a website about turtles and dove in there and just learned as I went. I started monetizing with ads,s and I quickly started to earn my money back there. That was 2000.

What was that?

I moved in 2011, and 2012 would have been when I bought the website, and then I paid $3,000 just to give kind of figures for the website. And the next month, I was making $50 a month, and I was like," Wow, that's an amazing return on investment in comparison to just leaving the money sitting in savings.

Yeah, so $50 a month, so you're making what $600 a year for a $3,000 investment?

Yeah, but I essentially like, well, I didn't know anything about running websites or SEO at that point. I accidentally put a bunch of internal links to this webpage. So it wasn't very long. I mean, it was within a couple of months, it was making three or 400 bucks a month.

Within, think within before the first 12 months, I had more than made my money back at that point. And then I started buying more content sites on the small scale, not the six-figure acquisitions that we hear about, but on the smaller scale, three, five, 10,000.

This is the thing though is like just one of our members just bought a YouTube channel just I'm just under $5,000, you know, and it's got great potential not too much risk high probability of getting his money back within under with under the 12 months, you know, there's a lot of these acquisitions that happen that don't get talked about that are on the smaller scale between 5 to 50k that don't get as much airtime that a lot of people are starting.

Yeah, seems that's where I started, and so many people start. Of course, some people have a hundred thousand dollars or more, and it makes sense to use SBA financing and jump a few steps.

But if there are a lot of people who aren't there, that's pretty hard these days to save a hundred thousand dollars, depending on your life situation and your income situation. Congrats on that first acquisition to 2012-ish, right? So, what are we looking at 14 years ago?

Yeah. Cool. And did you just keep buying content sites because you knew content sites, and you learned a little bit about internal linking and SEO as you grew this business?

Essentially, what I did was I started to look for websites that I kind of knew where I could do the same thing. So I would, you know, make the money on the buy basically. So I would see a site earning, I don't know, 200 bucks a month.

And I knew, you know, I could put at that time, think text links were working really well. And I think I was using the plugin ad inserter back then. So I would just go and, you know, insert that, put the ads where they went. And then again, a similar story overnight. Increase the earnings. Most of those sites I ended up selling off.

So I've just got a handful anymore. think I've got four or five sites now, so.

Cool. And so why sell?

I don't even remember why I sold. In 2018, I wanted to buy an e-commerce store. It wasn't a brick-and-mortar; it was an e-commerce store. And I needed capital to do the down payment. So that's kind of why I sold a few sites then. And I think that was pretty much the main reason, just to get some capital.

And what was the cause you were doing well with the smaller sort of content websites? I don't know what size, maybe on the 15, 50 K range, but what, why change to Ecom? Like, what was the motivation there?

I kind of thought that I should do that. I think I got excited about the business and everything it was about. And then the idea was like, I'm going to be making millions of dollars and overnight again, thinking I could just do that. Maybe a bit, I don't know, not arrogant, but yeah, thinking I, don't know. I just thought I had the magic touch, I guess, at that point, even though it was on a smaller scale with a totally different business model. didn't think it would be so hard.

Yeah, I remember when I first started investing just in the stock market, 15, 16, and 17, and I had spreadsheets before Excel or Google Sheets were even a thing. I had spreadsheets upon spreadsheets on compounding growth and compounding interest on what I would make with even just a modest, I would say average and modest sort of ROI, and how much wealth I would have at the age of 25, 35, 40, 50, 60, 70. This is the thing, like it's nothing, not everything goes according to plan.

And the same with me, this is the thing about being an entrepreneur, think is because we can be so positive. We have these ideologies of how much money we can make in a short period of time. For me, my ego used to say, by this age, I want to be making X amount of money, or I want to be in this position and making X amount of money, and I could take this business opportunity or start a business opportunity and get there in this amount of time without any, many things can happen along the way that we can just not predict. And so what was that e-commerce acquisition like? How much do you purchase that for, and what was the model? mean, niche.

Yeah, so it was in the adult products niche, and I think it was around $220,000, something like that, think. 220 or 280, can't even remember, it's been so long ago. Also, I took it like a master's degree because it was so painful.

Alright, what was the multiple?

It must have been eight, eight or nine. Cause I remember I offered about half, and then he was like, " No. Yeah, I live in Switzerland, and I've kind of gotten used to hearing people negotiate, but not really.

So, it was also a friend. I kinda was kind of like, okay, you know, he was doing seller financing as well. So we essentially agreed on a 10 % down or something like that. And then, yeah, just kind of move forward really, really fast. I mean, it was.

That's a big multiple.

We went, and we were in Las Vegas. We went and had breakfast, and then it was kind of like, okay, a couple of days later, I'll send you an LOI. I signed it, and I mean, it was like the next week I was in it. Money was transferred and happened.

Nice. Yeah. So 10 % down. Say it's just say it was 250, so 25 grand. Okay. And how long was the sale of financing over? Five years. Did it have interest?

Yeah. For five years.

8% interest is what we did. The payment was around $5,000 a month, something like that. Cool. Which was essentially all of the, a little more than the profit of the business.

Right.

Okay. Cool. Well, it seemed like a win-win and makes sense with a multiple that high. We're doing seller finance, having a multiple that high. I'm thinking without seller finance, you know, around that time, you know, three, fourish multiple, but with only 10 % down is pretty, pretty cool. Where did you go from there? What, how did that business go? As you said, it was a bit of a business degree, or you got your master's in acquiring that one.

Well, the nice thing about content websites is, you know, like the, do you have hosting? And then at the time you paid writers. So there's really not a whole lot of costs there. So, like going into the e-commerce space, knowing nothing, thinking again, you know, I'm going to be successful. Like I was with the content sites. I didn't think about accounting. didn't think about inventory.

I didn't think about inventory expiring. I didn't think about the virtual assistants that were working in the business because when I took over the business, it was kind of, you know, the virtual assistants were running the business at that point, so I didn't have to worry about it. At least that's what I thought, right?

So I still had the day job as well. So, managing the day job and then trying to learn the e-commerce business, also with an attitude of, don't really need to learn the e-commerce business that much because somebody else is running it. It was a bad approach. It was very quick. started getting hit with chargebacks was another thing. There were two, the other thing that there was two e-commerce sites.

One wasn't really looked after, and a ton of products were listed. There was a 3PL, a third-party logistics center, also. So it was a mix of having inventory and having drop shipping. And that's also maybe why the multiple was higher because that included inventory, right?

So a good chunk of money was in inventory there. And then also there were charges from the 3PL, which, you that wasn't clear to me. I didn't do my due diligence. Like I say, it was kind of like, we're having a conversation, like let's do this and just figure it out.

Yeah.

So pretty quickly. Sorry, go ahead.

It's kind of like you verify the numbers are working and you sort of look at, this is what's work, how much work they're spending in the business and the whole picture may not be, okay, they're doing that much work, but it's hard to understand the level of responsibility there is involved if something happens, which may not have been accounted for or talked about during the acquisition, right?

Yeah. So the other thing, like that, I discounted or didn't think about, I mean, they were only working a few hours a week on the business, but they built the business, so they knew the business inside and out. And I think that's something nobody really ever talks about, which is that there is a learning curve period where you have to learn the business and then restructure things to go with your processes.

And even just the confidence of, like, when you own the business, when something happens that isn't super ordinary, you at least know how to remedy and resolve some of those issues, or what to do first, other than just freak out and worry and think it's all bad, and then have to make decisions, decisions, or decisions based on the stress.

I remember my first few acquisitions were like when something happened, and the site was down, I didn't have a developer. I didn't have virtual assistants help me, was just me, I was the one-man band. And then when something happened, I would freak out, right? How do I fix this? How do I resolve this? Cause I just didn't have the experience of like, what's my go-to process if something doesn't work, you know?

Which is a scary thing when you bought an asset for 10 grand, 250 grand or more, 280, 220, and then even larger on that scale. Yeah, the learning curve is real. And that's why we should be having a good relationship; we should ensure we have a good relationship with the seller to help us remedy these things, to lean on them a little bit, even outside of training periods, training calls, and stuff like that.

It could be extended up to a year or two. Just quick, what was your take on building relationships with the people that you've acquired these businesses? I know the smaller ones, not really that people aren't going to be building such a big relationship, and you're not going to need to lean on them too much compared to say a larger asset that's, you know, say an Ecom six-figure deal like you acquired. What do you experience with talking and keeping relationships with sellers?

For the content sites, there was essentially no relationship because it was done through the auction sites. I knew how to run a content site, so I just transferred the website over to my host and domain, and that was it.

For the e-commerce site, I knew the guy quite well. He was very, very helpful. Anytime I had a question, jump on a call. There was one instance where there was an existing customer who placed a large order.

And I just let the VA do it because I didn't know anything about it. Well, I guess the VA did it completely wrong. And then he was the one who told me about it, and we kind of sorted through that. And then we maintained the relationship all along. And then it was kind of like, look, man, I can't make the payment this month.

And he said," Okay, no problem. Make it next month. And then the next month came, and I was just like, I don't think I could do this. Basically, we essentially agreeabout I think four months. I'm ashamed in a way to say it, but I…

It's also cool in a way that I had the option to do it. He was willing to take the business back, and yeah, essentially that's kind of what happened. And later on down the road, they worked on it and then eventually resold it to somebody else.

Right. Yeah. Isn't it wild that there are people who just think, I'm going to buy this thing with passive income, but there's, you can't outsource your responsibility at the end of the day. Absolutely. And when people hear about my lifestyle now and how minimal hours I work, it's kind of like, Whoa, okay.

But yeah, there's minimal workload, but a high level of responsibility when things do happenallowsch allow for that. What was your next acquisition after the e-commerce brand?

Well, essentially, I don't, I didn't buy anything else after that. I decided to start a site from scratch. Well, I still have my turtle site, and I doubled down on that. And basically, I figured out Lisp, Lisp-style posts.

I don't know if you're familiar with those, but essentially it's like, you know, a topic and then, you know, 20 items are listed. I figured out that those make really good money. So I started producing those for, now, for the turtle site. I'll give you an example. There were turtles in Alabama, turtles in Indiana, turtles in.

You know, every single state essentially, and you have a list, and the monetization was great. I mean, those were making three, three to 500 bucks a month per page. So I started to really do well.

And then I took all of the profits, and I started a gardening site and a similar approach, you know, of, don't remember, you know, this type of plant, different types of bougainvillea or whatever the plant is called. And I poured all this money into it. And then I started to get traction on there.

And I also had some snake site concepts, and they all started to do really well. And then I decided it's time to quit my job finally, because I've surpassed my daily or my, my, my salary essentially at my day job. So it's time to focus on where I was doing that. Yeah. That, that lasted about three months, and then we had a chat, CPT came out, and I think overnight, I mean, like most people in the content space, lost 50 %, and then, yeah, I mean, even, you know, dropped down 95. I was making 5 % of what I used to make, and then yeah, back to square one.

Yeah. So, your portfolio looks like four or five content websites. Yeah. Four. Yeah. Right. And this, and then this came around about 2021-ish or 2022-ish.

When I was doing well, I was doing well into 2022. The content breakdown had started already in 2022, but none of my sites were impacted. They were all stable and doing just like they had always done. Yeah. I kind of wasn't, I was half-half like maybe I might get hit, and you know, if I take half a hit, like that's still okay. But I didn't expect 95 % drop overnight. March of 2023 is when my main site got hit really badly.

Yeah.

Yeah, it content sites that use SEO for that period of time or for a long period of time, the game just absolutely changed. went from being content sites with sort of thin-ish content to building a brand, you know. How many acquisitions would you say, before we talk about what you've done since the drop and since the Google change updates and all that sort of stuff, how many acquisitions do you think you made?

Seems like you made like five or more.

I think around 10. Yeah. Yeah. 10, you know, and I flipped a few. Just one big one, and then the rest were under 20K, sub 20K each one.

And what would you say to somebody looking to acquire, maybe not so much of a content site? I do see great content sites out there for sale now. You know, it's three plus years after the fact, business-like content sites have stabilized and even come back a little bit, or you've got new ones that are just doing really well. So I do see some blogs and some content sites doing quite well that aren't just thin content with a bunch of links.

and domain rating, we've got a bit more of a brand behind them. Are some of the things that you would share with somebody as a first-time acquirer of a business, not so much a content site, but of a business that you've learned over your 10-plus acquisitions. I would say you need to be able to add value.

That's I think key number one is, I mean, that was not to specifically talk about content sites, but that was why I was buying them, because I specifically knew where I could add value for myself. Grow the business. Grow the business, so I think that, but over the years, as I've done it, the money becomes less interesting.

So I think it's important to have an interest and to really be able to want to build that business long-term, kind of like the Warren Buffett style approach for buying stocks. Buy it to own it for 10 years at least, and then focus on building a brand, and focus on something where you want to learn about it daily because you have to.

Building business processes is great once something is working, but you need to be able to find what's working.

And as we've learned, there's the rug pull. Sometimes things just stop working, and you've got to find something else that's working again. And that's, that's the hard part. Yeah, I totally agree. I think it's when you are growing a business or trying to grow anything that you should find something that you enjoy about it.

And that I guess can sometimes be mistaken for you need to be passionate about the niche, or you need to be passionate about the product. I have bought businesses that I'm not passionate about the product or the niche, but I've really.

personally enjoyed just the education phase and the growing phase of learning how to grow that type of business model. So, you could hit multiple boxes if you love the niche, you love the product, and you love growing the business itself. There needs to be something that keeps you involved and wanting to move forward and press on with the business. Part of it that you enjoy, right?

Yeah. Yeah.

Enjoying the process, I think, is the key. Like you kind of said, you enjoyed learning about the business and enjoying that whole journey of building a…

Yeah, whole, yeah, like I loved learning how to grow this bit, like for an e-commerce brand that I bought, how do I learn Facebook ads and evolve those Facebook ads? And then how do I find somebody to take over my role doing those Facebook or Meta ads? And then what's the next part of the business that I can optimize, you know, build the email list a bit more, and then different parts of the business to keep a bit fun and exciting, or at least interested in enjoying parts of the process, and that can change.

Like it could be that somebody buys a business based on a niche that they love. Say for me, I buy something based on surfing that I absolutely love, but I get over the love of surfing, or I get over the love of this particular thing because my passions and life changes, which is totally fine. Then you need to find other parts of it that you do love to stay involved, or if it's like one of the businesses that I had that was causing me too much stress, I sold it because I wasn't enjoying the process.

What have you been doing since this helpful content update? Blogs got decimated. What have you been doing with your content sites, the ones that you have, to keep them going and keep them making money? What are some of the changes that you've made? What would you suggest other people do?

So this was the other thought that I had for a beginner buyer. Choose your niche wisely. Choose a niche that's broad enough that it can grow and a niche that you can have a margin in, because if you have a small niche, then you can only go so big, and margins also have a big impact on that. So that's a big.

Yeah, it's huge because, especially in content, there's only so much content you can create around a certain niche before you are just regurgitating the same stuff. But also, if it is a product, there are only so many verticals and angles you can go down with selling that particular product or variations of that product, and then services as well.

And that'll kind of tie into what I'm going to talk about. So allturtles.com is my, or was the site I bought in 2012. I still have it. And you can only write about, I mean, there's only so many turtle species, and then there's only so many popular turtle species as pets. So like that's what I'm talking about in the niche. Likewise, there were only so many pet products that I could sell. And in that niche, there were only so many affiliates, and even drop shipping was kind of complicated.

There wasn't enough margin, really, to justify setting up drop shipping for it for the pet product side. What I did do is I thought that after the content crash, e-commerce sites that are tied to content sites seem to do well. So I set up a Shopify store, and then I went with the route of Turtle Gifts, thinking that, well, the margins are good, but I've struggled to get sales, even to this day.

So I tried that on the Turtle site. I tried doing an SEO audit using AI, essentially taking all of the data from Search Console, Bing's Webmaster, and then Google Analytics, and putting that in and saying, " You know, what content can I create? Where can I improve? Did that on the turtle site only. was the only site that I focused on, the rest I left because I kind of wanted to see, you know, is it my efforts that are paying off, or is it just the fluctuations of the web?

On top of that, it's a very seasonal business between essentially April and August. We have the peak periods, the best months, which have to do with when turtles come out,t and also the topic of the site. So, I also invested quite heavily in Pinterest pins and Pinterest advertising, which also didn't bring anything to fruition.

All that being said, I have seen a traffic increase. Again, it's seasonal, but I didn't really have that traffic increase last year. And I did most of that work here in the last six months or so. So that site's doing better, earning better, which is good.

Thank you.

The other sites I've left alone, they've pretty much just continued to die. So I would say that there's a correlation to the efforts, but there is a key thing to mention. The turtle site is much more robust in terms of content. It's not just the gardening site and the snake site and the others; they're just list-style posts.

That's the entire site. It was really purely about monetization. The turtle site is more holistic. It has the list-style posts, but then it has medical stuff. has places people can take their pets, you know, to give them up for adoption. So it really solves the problem on the whole for people who have pet turtles. Hopefully, the audience doesn't get bored by that, but yeah, that's essentially that site.

Cool. Congrats.

There are so many things in there that we could expand on. What I see is that when you have taken the turtle site from a content site into a business and a brand, and it's not just listicles, it's not just, you're, you're helping people at multiple stages of thinking about becoming pet owners of different types of turtles, how to do it, and then helping them with products and then maybe even services as well.

And acquiring traffic from multiple sources,s out of and it just makes sense that sites that you leave alone or any business or anything, even a plant that you leave alone, it's going to slowly fade away. Right. And the one, and what you give energy and focus on, you know, where your focus goes, energy flows, it can start to, you know, do good things, and move in a direction that you're pushing it with your energy, time, and resources.

So congrats. I think it's the best way to go, really, when you've got a portfolio like this,s to focus on the better one, and just at resource allocation is so critical, and you've done that so well, Brock. What would you say out of those things that you've mentioned has been the most beneficial for the content site? It's like getting picture traffic, building the blog, I mean building a bit of an e-commerce arm, or do you think it's all of it combined?

Like I'm just trying to look at this from the lens of somebody that does have a content site that goes, wow, okay, Brock's actually seen a you know, movement in the right direction for himself. But is there one thing to focus on first, or is it just a holistic approach to all things over time?

Well, I think it's a holistic approach, but I also think we need to clarify that the e-commerce shop is on a subdomain of the website. And I think that the traffic flow to that is much lower than it is to the main site. So the blog is growing at least seasonally; it seems to be growing, but not anywhere close to what it used to be. It used to get, you know, 150,000 visitors a month.

Now we're around 40,000. So still way, way, way down. Again, I think it's a holistic approach, but then also I think technically speaking, I have another website that I started in August, and that one is on WooCommerce. So it's a blog about GM vehicles because I just have a passion for that.

And then it also has an e-commerce shop associated with it. And I've done a few of those as well for clients, where I kind of see a correlation in blogs that are on the same domain and not on a subdomain.

They seem to grow better with an e-commerce shop than if it's a strong domain. And then you go to the subdomain. The only reason I did the subdomain was that Shopify wouldn't allow me to make it a subpage. That was the issue with using Shopify versus WooCommerce.

Right. Yeah. Interesting and cool to, cool to know. Would you say people should be looking, would if you would just do it again, would you lean into adding a shop and e-commerce, to a media content site first before you move into Pinterest, or how would you approach it? Mean, cause every single business is different, but just in the general terms, which way do you think you would lean?

I would much rather set up an e-commerce shop linked to a blog. Like if I were going to buy a content site now, a WordPress site, since that's what I'm familiar with, I would pretty much figure out what products I can drop ship, and then I would put a WooCommerce store on there immediately, link it to Google Merchant Center, and get all that stuff set up.

Yeah. And you know, using Jack, JPT, Claude AI, whatever it is, you can quickly find some wholesalers that do drop ship those types of products, build out a list of those that would do that prior to even acquiring the content business, and then adding that arm, you could get that done pretty fast. Building the brand off the back of it might be a bit more challenging, depending on how much, how significant the audience is on the content site and whether there's an email list or not. But if there is an email list, there's massive value there to be able to start some products straight away.

When it comes to Pinterest, how did you go about leveraging that? And what would you suggest other people with a blog do to either leverage Pinterest or other traffic channels themselves? So what I did was I had infographics created for the top-performing posts or top-performing help articles on the turtle website.

And then, you know, I pinned them also for the drop shipping stuff. I pinned all those products, did that for about three months, and then we spent a thousand thousand dollars a month or so on ads, which the rep was telling me to increase your spend, increase your spend, but I wasn't seeing really any sales.

I've seen sales trickle in over, you know, over the last year, but I haven't made back anywhere near the amount of money that we spent on ads. For Pinterest, I think it's good to diversify, but in terms of an ROI, it's been a really slow time to get the money back.

Would you, if you were to do it again, would you just create say for your top 10 articles or 20 articles, create five to 10 pins or images, and just try to do it the slower organic way rather than put money behind the pins?

Yeah, if I were going to do it again on Pinterest, however, for my new site, I haven't done Pinterest at all. took a different approach. I took the approach of having ChatGPT create a tool, and just a free resource tool. And that has really drastically gained traction in terms of traffic and getting email signups.

What approach do you take for the new site?

Cool. And did you, how did you gain traffic traction to that? Did you create a web of articles and content around the tool or?

The website's GMTCentral.com has in the 2000s, in the early 2000s, vehicles built on a GM platform called GMT 800. That was like the Chevy trucks, Veranos, Tahos, things like that, not to bore your listeners. And essentially, I've created content around that platform only. So I've started to get branded search there, and the tool to decode it is called an RPO code. Basically, on the glove box of the vehicles, there's a bunch of letters and numbers. You can type that into the tool, and it will decode, and it will tell you what the vehicle came with.

So that's the tool that I've built. And from an email sign-ups perspective, I don't actually have an aggressive pop-up or anything like that. I just have it at the bottom, you know, put in your email if you want to have updates. But to give you an idea, I checked last week, and I had 300 sign-ups. I checked yesterday, and I have a thousand sign-ups.

It's kind of like a hockey stick approach at this point. We're also selling products there.

Awesome, I love that. So that is just a principle that I share all the time. It's the best way to build a business to build more value and create and give more value. And that's what you've done with a tool, and people love it obviously, it's just hit the spot.

So like how do you not just create any tool with chat GPT for your niche, but how do you reverse engineer, understand what your audience need and want that aren't getting but can solve that with a tool and then what tool would that be which is kind of like what sort of prompt you could start using with ChatJVD to be able to build a tool that, what's the biggest fear and frustration and want and need that my audience isn't getting for this type of business that I have?

How do we solve that with a free tool that is creative, that generates so much value that people are gonna want to download it in a hockey stick growth fashion? Is there anything else that you've done that you think this would be a cool share as well that people could benefit from in growing their businesses?

Well, I think probably the people who are listening to this podcast are going to be willing to spend money, but spending money on tools is worthwhile. Like I use the top tier or the $200 or whatever it is a month, ChatGPT version. And that has increased my productivity. I mean, just astronomically, I used to have 15 writers, and obviously, like having one $200 a month payment, replacing all of that is just ridiculous.

Yeah, we are to handle that many riders as well.

Also, yeah, the personalities and all of that that goes with it. So I think leaning on tools and then, yeah, just trying to make better and better things to solve people's problems. Anytime I have an idea, I mean, that website was particularly created out of a problem-solving reason. Like that tool, I created that tool because I was using that tool on other people's websites, but there were so many ads that it was just impossible to use. So I was like, I'll just make my own. It took 20 minutes, made it, brings on a ton of traffic.

So love it. Absolutely love that. Brock, thanks so much for your time and coming on and sharing the pod. It's been so good for you to come on and share with listeners because a lot of people have lost hope, you know, in what to do with blogs and content sites.

And I can see that content sites are starting to come back in, and only if you understand how to build value with content sites and make sure they are brands as you've done, and you're helping people with it as well. So, where can we send people to find out more about you, or if they want to connect with you?

Where should we send them?

They want to connect with me; they can go to broccoli.org. Otherwise, if they want to learn about my GM passion, they can go to GMTcentral.com. Then, turtles are all at turtles.com if they want to learn about that.

Awesome, awesome Brock. Everybody that is listening, thank you for listening, and I'll see you guys on the next one. Check out the links to either Brock's two sites or Brock himself.

I'll put them in the show notes, and yeah, speak to you guys soon.

Thanks again, Brock. Thank you.